Lanes/Targa Rallies
- Thread starter RallyCiaran
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swervygerdy
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My first lanes behind the wheel. Navigator was sick.Twice.Got stuck in a hedge, lost between the stages and on them, car needs a clutch and a hydraulic hand brake. Sump and diff guards would be nice too.
All in all, loved it....
All in all, loved it....
RallyCiaran
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Results from Saturday: http://www.anicc.org.uk/Resources/Documents/Targa Lanes Rally Sept 2014.pdf
We had a good days craic with @swansty. The lanes were good but there was a few bits that were set up far too tight, nobody could get round them. Timing seemed a bit of a mess so I would take the results with a pinch of salt.
We had a good days craic with @swansty. The lanes were good but there was a few bits that were set up far too tight, nobody could get round them. Timing seemed a bit of a mess so I would take the results with a pinch of salt.
..Well! Only getting a minute to reply here now. For anyone that doesnt already know, I've been busy panel beating! 
We had mixed feelings throughout the day. Initally hated some of the tests thinking they were either too complicated/autotesty or just far too tight in places, but after a 2nd run through them we reckoned we were just making our notes far to complicated, so simplified things down for the likes of 'Normans Yard' and ended up loving that test. As for the tight spots, again we hated the 1st run through 'Watsons Rock' with the 360 around that old milk churn, but discovered that going a little easier in the yard below it, and staying down, tight to the ribbons allowed us to get more of a 'run and swing' into the 360!.. Flying! lol.. We even managed that tight 180 half way through 'Watson's Home'... But then I went and and binned it on the last run through Watson's Rock!... GAME OVER.
Should be straightened in time for Larne tho!
We had mixed feelings throughout the day. Initally hated some of the tests thinking they were either too complicated/autotesty or just far too tight in places, but after a 2nd run through them we reckoned we were just making our notes far to complicated, so simplified things down for the likes of 'Normans Yard' and ended up loving that test. As for the tight spots, again we hated the 1st run through 'Watsons Rock' with the 360 around that old milk churn, but discovered that going a little easier in the yard below it, and staying down, tight to the ribbons allowed us to get more of a 'run and swing' into the 360!.. Flying! lol.. We even managed that tight 180 half way through 'Watson's Home'... But then I went and and binned it on the last run through Watson's Rock!... GAME OVER.
Should be straightened in time for Larne tho!
peespeed
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A good few people commented that they didn't need as many pylons in some of the small yards and in fact a couple of tests shouldn't have had certain sections in tight spaces in them at all,
Lots of confusion on the times, I think a good few of the marshals weren't sure what penalties to give if people went wrong or even shunted while circling a pylon. Another problem seemed to be that the check sheets didn't arrive back to the A29 til after the finish instead of during the day.
Also a couple or comments were made about the stop boxes, some were properly marked but alot weren't and crews didn't know whether to stop before, after or astride.....anyone else any comments
As you know, I missed Cookstown & have only competed in 3 of these previously. I really do enjoy the day that the clubs provide for us, but have to say I find the format from club to club can be fairly inconsistent.
Sometimes excellent events end up unrewarding over something so so simple as someone setting out a cone chicane that they don't actually try to fit a car through before running the test, or deciding not to count penalties due to lack of marshal communication, or even failing to classify the competitors accurately beforehand etc.
The thing that motivates competitors to enter, is a day of challenging & rewarding driving, & unfortunately it's too easy to come away feeling frustrated over something very simple on the day!
I thought obstacles on Lanes rally's were simply a method of speed control, sometimes the tests cross over to being full-on autotest. Not only are these tests often unclear & hard to follow for a team, from what Iv seen, they are difficult to both lay out & oversee for the organisers, especially if they are in the confines of a small farm yard etc?
Unfortunately, clubs will never have the support they deserve & often have to make the best of the lanes they have the use of, or lack help from experienced marshals to set up & police tests properly
QUB/PMC were so enjoyable, because the lanes were fantastic, the test navigation was so simple & the day was all about the driving!
Less is definitely more! But maybe that's just me?
Sometimes excellent events end up unrewarding over something so so simple as someone setting out a cone chicane that they don't actually try to fit a car through before running the test, or deciding not to count penalties due to lack of marshal communication, or even failing to classify the competitors accurately beforehand etc.
The thing that motivates competitors to enter, is a day of challenging & rewarding driving, & unfortunately it's too easy to come away feeling frustrated over something very simple on the day!
I thought obstacles on Lanes rally's were simply a method of speed control, sometimes the tests cross over to being full-on autotest. Not only are these tests often unclear & hard to follow for a team, from what Iv seen, they are difficult to both lay out & oversee for the organisers, especially if they are in the confines of a small farm yard etc?
Unfortunately, clubs will never have the support they deserve & often have to make the best of the lanes they have the use of, or lack help from experienced marshals to set up & police tests properly
QUB/PMC were so enjoyable, because the lanes were fantastic, the test navigation was so simple & the day was all about the driving!
Less is definitely more! But maybe that's just me?
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The thing to remember, is that Targas tend to attract a real cross section of competitors. People who only did night navs or autotests, will turn up at a Targa. Whilst you or I might see the tight cones in a yard as a bit of a spolier, I believe there will be other competitors, who will relish it! By the same token, its not uncommon to hear competitors complain about the roughness of some tests (something i don't really have much of an issue with. Gravel FTW). Its a balance. You'll find some events lean more one way or the other. You may have noticed, that I don't go to every event lol. Whilst i have been busy, I also have my favourites and ones that i can take or leave. For me personally, Queens, PMC, Larne, boxing day and Dungannon are probably the stand out events, but i'm sure different people pre-fare different events.
As a side note.... If you really enjoy 'a day of challenging & rewarding' driving, i'd totally recommend that you try a night nav. Your talking 60-80 miles of competitive driving. Its not on private land, but as a driver, These events are really challenging and really enjoyable. There won't be a cone in sight either
As a side note.... If you really enjoy 'a day of challenging & rewarding' driving, i'd totally recommend that you try a night nav. Your talking 60-80 miles of competitive driving. Its not on private land, but as a driver, These events are really challenging and really enjoyable. There won't be a cone in sight either
RallyCiaran
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We are officially recorded as having 3 test fails, but as far as I could tell we didn't go wrong anywhere. We have a fail for our second run through Watson's Home Lane, but the test was very simple, straight up the lane, turn round and come back. There was no way to fail it.
The bogey time for Lavery's Lane was 118 seconds, but on the results almost everyone is recorded as 95 seconds.
There was no box on the time card to record the seconds. But there was a box for the previous car number. So on some tests you only got your time recorded to the minute, on others you had your seconds recorded in the previous car number box, and on others you had your previous car number recorded, very confusing.
The bogey time for Lavery's Lane was 118 seconds, but on the results almost everyone is recorded as 95 seconds.
There was no box on the time card to record the seconds. But there was a box for the previous car number. So on some tests you only got your time recorded to the minute, on others you had your seconds recorded in the previous car number box, and on others you had your previous car number recorded, very confusing.
RallyCiaran
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If Stephen Ferguson thinks it's too tight, then it is definitely too tight.
Cookstown had good lanes, just not set up to make best use of them. They used a couple of tests that have two way traffic on them so it complicates things. The tests are good so you wouldn't want to lose them, but only being able to send in 1 car every 3 minutes is a bit of a problem.
Cookstown had good lanes, just not set up to make best use of them. They used a couple of tests that have two way traffic on them so it complicates things. The tests are good so you wouldn't want to lose them, but only being able to send in 1 car every 3 minutes is a bit of a problem.
Id be keen to give it a go as you know, the fact that its in the evening would suit me spot with work/child-minding etc too, I am missing out on loads of weekend driving at the minute
I need to get someone that knows their way around a map & who's happy to occupy the passenger seat. I suppose its fear of the unknown!!
Wow!.. Back from night two of panel beating / welding and check out all the chat!.. Good comments / opinions!.. Here's ours:
Frustrations that remained throughout
Stop boxes: We knew to come to a stop behind the posts each time / direction, but just had bother spotting a few of them on the tests. Was more like a treasure hunt at times, slowing down, trying to spot the things. I also accidently blasted through the 1st one on the very 1st test (not a good start to the day). Perhaps two orange cones with A4 sized "STOP" would be better.
Timing: We initially thought that as long as everyone got the same 95 seconds on Laverys then so what, it would just be like a cancelled test... but then what if you just happened to excel on that particular test due to the nature / layout, would be frustrating to not see the benefit. We're paying £100+ for a days competitive fun so timing is important!
Frustrations that were overcome
Tightness:
By the end of the first loop of tests I was ready for home.. was makng comments like "this will be one rally to forget". However, by the 2nd loop I was trying different approaches like going a little easier just before, to get manouvred and get a better approach to 'the tight spot'.. The 2nd pass through Watsons rock for example was genuinely really rewarding. That said, I really wouldnt have liked to be in the likes of your GTi6 @RComms ! Perhaps that test was an unfair advantage to the RWD crowd?
Autotest type tests:
Our 1st run through Normans Yard was a complete shambles. I had memorised the 1st half of the test and knew things were going wrong when the notes werent keeping up. In the heat of the moment I didnt have the sense to slacken off and wait, and ended up going totally off track.... MAX TIME. However 2nd time round we decided to scrub our over complicated notes. I memorized the tricky part in the back yard, while my Navi got us round to that point and reminded me when the 'tricky bit' was coming!... Ended up genuinely loving that test!
Good points that remained throughout
The tests: A couple of tight spots and as @RallyCiaran said long start intervals waiting on the previous car to clear, but all in all we loved ALL the tests by the end of the day. I wonder if we're giving Kevin & Andy the impression we we doing tight, twisty claustrophobic tests all day... There were plenty of fast sweeping sections too!.. Hairy enough in places!..... ... Definately had the lanes for a fantastic days rallying!
The only concern I would have was the couple of sheer drops on two of the tests!..(anyone else notice?)
Minimal road miles: Didnt feel like we were trekking too far from one test to the next! Good job!
The Folk: Cheesy I know, but it always helps when marshalls are friendly and welcoming.. It's a bit off putting if you ever come across someone who clearly doesnt want to be there. I wished we could have made it back to hear other's stories at the finish. Instead we had to get the trailer and head back to Watsons Rock!..
The only other major frustration wasnt anything to do with the event but my driving / stupidity!.. By far my biggest frustration of the day. One example at Laverys goes as follows:
Navi "passengers 360 coming!"
Driver "OK, Passngers 360?"
Navi "Yip, here, passengers 360!"
Driver "Dead on!"... as he executes a neat and tidy DRIVERS 360!.. FAIL!.. MAX TIME!
My final mistake was a biggy!.. going a bit too hard into a sq right and the sad thing is, I kind of questioned myself coming up to it!.. Wondered if I was pushing my luck a bit! Turns out we got a good time, but meant we didnt make the last test and got another Max Time for that!...
Was definately a day of learning tho!.. Every cloud has a silver lining eh!
SO!!... Who has their entry away for Larne?!
Frustrations that remained throughout
Stop boxes: We knew to come to a stop behind the posts each time / direction, but just had bother spotting a few of them on the tests. Was more like a treasure hunt at times, slowing down, trying to spot the things. I also accidently blasted through the 1st one on the very 1st test (not a good start to the day). Perhaps two orange cones with A4 sized "STOP" would be better.
Timing: We initially thought that as long as everyone got the same 95 seconds on Laverys then so what, it would just be like a cancelled test... but then what if you just happened to excel on that particular test due to the nature / layout, would be frustrating to not see the benefit. We're paying £100+ for a days competitive fun so timing is important!
Frustrations that were overcome
Tightness:
By the end of the first loop of tests I was ready for home.. was makng comments like "this will be one rally to forget". However, by the 2nd loop I was trying different approaches like going a little easier just before, to get manouvred and get a better approach to 'the tight spot'.. The 2nd pass through Watsons rock for example was genuinely really rewarding. That said, I really wouldnt have liked to be in the likes of your GTi6 @RComms ! Perhaps that test was an unfair advantage to the RWD crowd?
Autotest type tests:
Our 1st run through Normans Yard was a complete shambles. I had memorised the 1st half of the test and knew things were going wrong when the notes werent keeping up. In the heat of the moment I didnt have the sense to slacken off and wait, and ended up going totally off track.... MAX TIME. However 2nd time round we decided to scrub our over complicated notes. I memorized the tricky part in the back yard, while my Navi got us round to that point and reminded me when the 'tricky bit' was coming!... Ended up genuinely loving that test!
Good points that remained throughout
The tests: A couple of tight spots and as @RallyCiaran said long start intervals waiting on the previous car to clear, but all in all we loved ALL the tests by the end of the day. I wonder if we're giving Kevin & Andy the impression we we doing tight, twisty claustrophobic tests all day... There were plenty of fast sweeping sections too!.. Hairy enough in places!..
... ... Definately had the lanes for a fantastic days rallying!The only concern I would have was the couple of sheer drops on two of the tests!..(anyone else notice?)
Minimal road miles: Didnt feel like we were trekking too far from one test to the next! Good job!
The Folk: Cheesy I know, but it always helps when marshalls are friendly and welcoming.. It's a bit off putting if you ever come across someone who clearly doesnt want to be there. I wished we could have made it back to hear other's stories at the finish. Instead we had to get the trailer and head back to Watsons Rock!..
The only other major frustration wasnt anything to do with the event but my driving / stupidity!.. By far my biggest frustration of the day. One example at Laverys goes as follows:
Navi "passengers 360 coming!"
Driver "OK, Passngers 360?"
Navi "Yip, here, passengers 360!"
Driver "Dead on!"... as he executes a neat and tidy DRIVERS 360!.. FAIL!.. MAX TIME!
My final mistake was a biggy!.. going a bit too hard into a sq right and the sad thing is, I kind of questioned myself coming up to it!.. Wondered if I was pushing my luck a bit! Turns out we got a good time, but meant we didnt make the last test and got another Max Time for that!...
Was definately a day of learning tho!.. Every cloud has a silver lining eh!
SO!!... Who has their entry away for Larne?!
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Point of view from the finish timekeeper on the Watson home lane test, it seemed to be poorly organised all round, the chief marshal had to get a competitor to give us directions to the test from the filling station, on arrival at the test neither start, finish or the last stop box was marked out. The finish of the test was in my opinion dangerous due to its proximity to the last bend. We were lucky we all had each others mobile numbers on the test as that is the only way we could keep in contact with each other when there was a car off on the test. The timekeepers instructions sheet instructed timekeepers only to fill the relevant boxes on the timecards, when it only asked for hours and minutes that's all we could write down, the seconds I recorded on the check sheet, as for previous car number, it is the only safety system on the tests to check there is not a car missing somewhere, using it for the seconds would have got very confusing and left us no way to ensure we didn't need to stop the test to look for a car. Although there was the timing issues and some of the test a bit tight most of the competitors seemed to be happy.
Alright Raymond! Was good to see you again. We're beginning to notice a lot of the same old faces at each rally now. Shows how dedicated a lot of volunteers are, being out at an event most weekends by the looks of things!
Also good to hear things from a different angle too. That stop box at the finish was grand and also the one before it, clear to see and with a white line too if I remember correctly, but the one nearest the hairpin wasnt just as obvious.
That was one of the drops I was mentioning in the previous post, on the outside of that finish bend, we thought that was a bit ropey. Gives me the shivers imagining any car (especially an open top, cageless MX5) sliding off the edge there. Perhaps if that test had been run backwards, then we'd only be setting off at that bend rather than bombing towards the finish.
Like I said before, by the second run through we were loving all the tests, so wouldnt want loose them for future.
On another note, only got a quick look through @peespeed 's photos last night and there are some crackers again! Loving the old, funky stuff and there's a good one of Gilmore and his Navi heading off, into the distance with the hood down and dust trailing... like a shinier headed version of Thelma and Louise!
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RallyCiaran
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Id be keen to give it a go as you know, the fact that its in the evening would suit me spot with work/child-minding etc too, I am missing out on loads of weekend driving at the minute
I need to get someone that knows their way around a map & who's happy to occupy the passenger seat. I suppose its fear of the unknown!!
Come out and do the North Armagh Orchard rally on the 3rd October, it's a brilliant driving rally. Just get anyone to nav for you, they don't need to have any experience for the beginners class (Class 4). You might be lost a few times but you will still enjoy the hoking about and you will be much better prepared for your second Nav rally.
peespeed
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Thanks, almost spat out a mouthful of coffee
Happy enough with a few of the photos, makes it worth the 3hr drive up and 3hr drive home when I see the comments online afterwards and some of the messages I get from some competitors lol
Final day for getting entries in for Larne MC's event this Saturday. I know @KevM is giving it a miss but for anyone else who's undecided / had forgotten.
Sorry Kevin!... If it makes you feel any better, I was stuck in a shed, covered in Isopon dust while you were out diffing in the sunshine all day Saturday past!?.. Sounded like good fun and I've heard nothing but good reports about it!.. Shame they wouldnt let passengers in a 'roofed MX5' otherwise I would've been tempted (isopon effect and all!)
Does that mean you'll make the UAC one on the 11th tho?
Does that mean you'll make the UAC one on the 11th tho?
peespeed
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Hope you lot won't miss me this weekend, not gonna make it to Larne but will possibly be at the UAC event on the 11th and then over to England for the International Autotest on the 18th..........think I need to look for sponsorship from a fuel company with all this traveling to events to get a few photos