Wheel arch dented and chipped during wheel alignment.

[matt1207]

I rang a few places when I was looking an alignment and they all said the gauges wouldn't fit cos it was lowered (30mm)
@KERR'S TYRES were the only place able to do it. (That I contacted)

 

[Ian A]

Its a 3mm hanger. If the tyre doesn't catch the arch, I don't understand how the equipment would. The bulk of the gauge is well within the original profile of the tyre.

Like you've said, its hardly rocket-science....

Look at the bottom part of the gauge in this pic, below the white laser housing. They extend well past the mounting point between the wheel / tyre.

Its this part at the top which caught the arch.

Also, this part is solid metal. Hence damage

 

[pobmk4]

This is the reason most places won't do lowered cars.
The gauge can catch on the arch when the wheel is turned, granted not much but it still can, hence why they need to be careful. It's a pity but trying to actually prove it is going to be hard.
As for the clamping of steering and the brake being on, this is done with clamping tools, so one man can operate the entire job.
I trust no-one to do it properly apart from JB tyres, as I no longer have access to the equipment to do it myself.

Unless you can get the CCTV and it shows negligent operation then you haven't much to go on.

 

[Ian A]

Few pics of damage.

 

[AndyG]

You can see in the above pics that the brake lights are on, so someone is in the car. How do they clamp the wheel with someone sitting at it?

The clamp they put around the steering to hold it straight mounts onto the brake pedal so that's more than likely why it would be on

 

[Coog]

The clamp they put around the steering to hold it straight mounts onto the brake pedal so that's more than likely why it would be on

Ah I'd assumed it was the seat clamp type.

 

[Nicky]

Ah I'd assumed it was the seat clamp type.

The place that does our alignment uses the spring clamp off the drivers seat.

For the brake pedal, there's a bar with a sliding plate on it that works like the back of a silicone gun; push the pedal forward with the bar, then slide the plate up the bar to hold it firm against the front of the seat.

 

[Ian A]

The place that does our alignment uses the spring clamp off the drivers seat.

For the brake pedal, there's a bar with a sliding plate on it that works like the back of a silicone gun; push the pedal forward with the bar, then slide the plate up the bar to hold it firm against the front of the seat.

Exactly the same used here.

 

[stevieturbo]

Are you talking about the dent or the line ?

Either of which I'd find it hard to believe their equipment could cause it.

The dent because it would take one hell of a thump, the line because a rigid metal object is very unlikely to make such a mark unless dragged past it, and then it would probably be a deeper score.

 

[Ian A]

Are you talking about the dent or the line ?

Either of which I'd find it hard to believe their equipment could cause it.

The dent because it would take one hell of a thump, the line because a rigid metal object is very unlikely to make such a mark unless dragged past it, and then it would probably be a deeper score.

When I went round to them again, we re-created the scenario.

The gauge has caught the very bottom of the arch, then caused the dent and chipping as its dragged on past, under the arch.

 

[Nicky]

Are you talking about the dent or the line ?

Either of which I'd find it hard to believe their equipment could cause it.

The dent because it would take one hell of a thump, the line because a rigid metal object is very unlikely to make such a mark unless dragged past it, and then it would probably be a deeper score.

Turning the steering on a car that's not started and sitting with good grip on the ramp would require a good bit of force, especially if done from outside the car, leaning in, as opposed to sitting on the seat. It would only have taken the guy to turn the steering wheel hard to the right to get the bracket to do the damage to the wing IMO.

 

[pablo]

wings arent exactly structural either

 

[stevieturbo]

But why would anyone working outside the car with the steering wheel clamped inside in the straight position....try and turn the wheel ?

I'm sure it is possible though, as there are some complete muppets work in such places...and the very reason I'd never take my own car to any of them !

 

[pablo]

he did say the wheels were turned for calibration purposes.

 

[Ian A]

he did say the wheels were turned for calibration purposes.

Yep. Steering is turned with gauges mounted, before steering wheel is clamped in place.

 

[stevieturbo]

Strange..simply because anyone would know you cant turn the wheels with those types of gauges mounted.

And for a basic 4 wheel alignment which that equipment would offer...cant see why they would actually ever need to turn the wheels ?

There are no measurements it would offer that would require turning the wheels.

And measurements that do require turning the wheels, the wheels need turned a fair bit, so different equipment is needed.


But, as said people can do the strangest things. If the mark/dent is exactly where the equipment would fall, then it would see hard to argue if the equipment itself is fixed rigidly to the wheels during test ( most hang or float against the wheel face though )

 

[KevM]

the gauges we have just hang and would fall off the wheel if the wheel was turned. They cant grip to cause physical pressure on anything. The arch is typical mk5 & rotten anyway.

 

[pablo]

if its sandwiched between the tyre and wheel then it wont fall off.

 

[KevM]

If its sandwiched between the tyre and arch, you couldnt have fitted it initially. If you can slide the hanger over the top of the tyre, then the tyre can slide under the hanger. If you put the car on full lock, the equipment slides off the tyre and falls on the ground.

As Stevie says, it hangs/floats. its not attached of fixed to the wheel, so wouldn't cause pressure on the arch. Are they not double skinned/reinforced at the arch too?

 

[Ian A]

If its sandwiched between the tyre and arch, you couldnt have fitted it initially. If you can slide the hanger over the top of the tyre, then the tyre can slide under the hanger. If you put the car on full lock, the equipment slides off the tyre and falls on the ground.

As Stevie says, it hangs/floats. its not attached of fixed to the wheel, so wouldn't cause pressure on the arch. Are they not double skinned/reinforced at the arch too?

It uses 4 pins to mount between the tyre and wheel. Like below:

Nothing goes over the tyre as such.

 

[KevM]

??? How would vertical gravity come into play on that one??

it uses the 4 pins as contact points on the rim to take a level of your wheel and in turn, aim the laser

Here's a better pic of a 'complete' rig

I get the impression you have made up your mind before you posted this topic, so yeah, throw the book at them if it makes you feel better about the situation.

 

[pablo]

not sure why so argumentative Kev but if its fitted THEN turned to get caught between the wheel and the arch then it would cause the damage. The car above is not lowered so wouldnt have a problem but the operator should have taken this into account.

If the car went in fine, and left with damage then thats 100% the fault of the operator. The OP has showed the manager that the rig catches in the same the arch when fitted and the wheel turned which is fairly conclusive imo.

 

[Ant]

Aye from those pics of the gear mounted/attached and where the damage is it'd be one huge coincidence that the damage was somehow caused elsewhere.

if there was a possible issue because it was lowered the depot shouldn't have attempted it, if they did (like in this case) and it did go wrong then it was on their own heads

 

[Antoin]

I think KevM has got completely confused by the two different setups tbh and I assume he uses the set up that slips between the TYRE and the ARCH rather than the type that clamps between the TYRE and the WHEEL.
I can easily see how the set up with the prongs that clamps between wheel and tyre would damage it. Not sure how the operator couldn't see that if he turned the wheel with them mounted on a lowered car.

 

[Marc]

??? How would vertical gravity come into play on that one??

it uses the 4 pins as contact points on the rim to take a level of your wheel and in turn, aim the laser

Here's a better pic of a 'complete' rig


I get the impression you have made up your mind before you posted this topic, so yeah, throw the book at them if it makes you feel better about the situation.

The system on his car looks more like this