VW diesel emissions scandal

[Dub_cub 89]

Auck now everyone knows the Americans wouldn't do that, sure they allowed all sorts of much more advanced foreign machinery to be sold in or imported into their country for decades without using emissions and safety regulations to protect and encourage sales of their own brands, as an example everybody knows the r32 skyline wouldn't have been able to trounce the 1989 corvette in pretty much every respect that might matter to a new car buyer, and therefor wouldn't have impacted on sales much if it had been allowed to reach the showrooms.

 

[Rocko]

What would happen if VW just said "No. We're a German company, your fines mean nothing to us."

 

[mk2driver]

What would happen if VW just said "No. We're a German company, your fines mean nothing to us."

They can't as they have agreed to the legislation when they sold the vehicle in that country so can be brought to court in the US if required. However if they deal with EPA/CARB properly I doubt they will be fined the maximum amount!

To other posters who think other manufacturers all cheat to get MPG figures up - this is not cheating. The case with VW is that the car changed operating modes essentially when on the emissions cycle. Some early cases of this were as simple as micro switches on bonnets as they are up during the test so the car changed calibration. It is not difficult to know when the car is on a test as the test is an exact repeatable test so if the car looked at torque/vehicle speed/engine speed etc it could quite easily change calibrations, it looks like this is what VW have done.

In terms of MPG figures being "wrong" this is because the cycle is quite simply not representative of how real people drive their car in the real world. The car doesn't change its operating mode but what does change is the fact you aren't in a car in a humidity and temperature controlled cell driving a very unrepresentative drive cycle with no radio, air con, lights, heated seats etc on. The cars are prepped for the cycle testing in that they are in the best condition possible in terms of a fully charged battery, tyre pressures all correct, they have been at the correct temperature for 8 hours etc. This is because these are the rules of the test not because the OEM's are breaking those rules or cheating. The cycles are no good for predicting real world MPG and they are changing to a more representative cycle. Will this accurately predict MPG? No because again the real world is uncontrolled and the amount of variance is huge!

 

[Blackie]

The details at the minute seem more than vague...lets face it, how would the car know a test was being carried out in the first place ?

Exactly what is the test the refer to anyway ?

is it just the US or further afield ?

Would it be a good time to buy shares in VW ?

This is exactly what I can't get my head around. Unless either the yanks do an emissions test on a car differently than they do here or they have a sensor in the tailpipe that can tell when a "foreign object" such as the emissions reader is inserted into the tailpipe.

I'm not sure how cost effective that would have been to build how ever many cars that are allegedly affected as opposed to just building them to the specs they were meant to??

Or am I being too naive?

 

[mk2driver]

This is exactly what I can't get my head around. Unless either the yanks do an emissions test on a car differently than they do here or they have a sensor in the tailpipe that can tell when a "foreign object" such as the emissions reader is inserted into the tailpipe.

I'm not sure how cost effective that would have been to build how ever many cars that are allegedly affected as opposed to just building them to the specs they were meant to??

Or am I being too naive?

As I said it's very easy with all the sensors already fitted to the car to tell if it's on a cycle.

In terms of why they did it, it can be a huge cost per unit to get cars compliant especially with diesel cars where the after treatment system now costs more than the engine in a lot of cases

 

[Blackie]

Yea I read your reply after I posted mine, seems perfectly plausible and shows I was naive lol

 

[Coog]

What would happen if VW just said "No. We're a German company, your fines mean nothing to us."

The US extradite them and they go to jail. Just like if I gave someone in government here a backhander. I go to an American jail under FCPA rules if/when caught. Pretty frightening really.

 

[I R HillBilly]

The US extradite them and they go to jail. Just like if I gave someone in government here a backhander. I go to an American jail under FCPA rules if/when caught. Pretty frightening really.

Germany would "LoL" at that.

 

[chrisd1]

People have been talking about this for years and knew it had to come out sometime... was never possible to have them that low emissions!
But all these companies are the same no doubt... I wouldn't expect the USA to go banning all VW's, but then again they did ban Skylines

 

[Nickyyy]

If this is the same for the European markets, will this mean that current VAG cars with the devices fitted will incur retrospective tax charges due to higher emissions? And cost more to tax going forward?

 

[mk2driver]

If this is the same for the European markets, will this mean that current VAG cars with the devices fitted will incur retrospective tax charges due to higher emissions? And cost more to tax going forward?

It could be a lot worse than that, if they change the specification of the vehicle from what the customer purchased they may have to buy the cars back!

 

[FM155]

Outside chance but possible. That'd give some fleet managers a heart attack although they'd probably try to claim off VAG.. Ouch.

The real problem here is the test requirements and conditions which are fook all to do with real world conditions. The manufacturers have designed to meet those test conditions and there are various means of compliance. I think it's just such a brilliant germanic logical way to approach it to say, well, we can't meet it, lets make the car tell these tossers what they want to hear. Brilliant.

It's the boot up the hole the industry needs but I think the EPA may have just kicked themselves in the nuts because it will show the regulations are either impossible to meet in real world conditions or weighed against imports as expected. The EU tests / conditions are no better and mean very little to real world conditions.

 

[KevM]

Greenpeace will love this!

They've been all over VW for years now because Bluemotion technology was available but "upsold" instead of being used as standard. We used to have peaceful protests outside Agnews on Boucher regularly!

 

[A.M.Q.R.]

A protectionist story generated in a desperate bid to prop up what remains of the US car industry. Murica! Fook yeah.

Or a try to crush the opposition like... say.....the 1999 bombing of the Zastava factory where the Yugo was built...

 

[anlygi]

Time to up the VED on all Vag diesels to at least £500! If our comparatively clean 6 cylinders are being raped, only fair these things slowly killing us should be paying through the nose.

 

[56oval]

I just read ( how true or not ) that the irish government is to increase the tax on all post 1/6/2008 vw 2.0 tdi's to 800 odd euro and backdate the tax too.
If thats true . Ouch!

 

[Daviddunlop83]

UK Cars 'Could Be Recalled' Over VW Scandal

U.K. Cars could now be recalled too

 

[Rocko]

a transport campaign group has warned.

So no then.

 

[Coog]

For sure it could signal the end of the diesel engine if they struggle to meet emissions criteria as-is, while cheating! Imagine the extra after treatment required in order to get them producing 1/40th of the pollution they are right now.

What I can't understand is how the results of the tests here and in the US could be significantly different (to the power of 40) without someone noticing. Surely someone has to have looked at our independent tests and checked them back to the US/global data and asked questions. And if the results were the same or similar then it looks like there's something to investigate locally.

 

[Dave..]

I see that a US Law firm is preparing legal action against VW.

Volkswagen emissions: CEO Winterkorn backs German inquiry - BBC News

The US law firm Hagens Berman is launching a class-action suit against VW on behalf of people who bought the relevant cars.

The models cited by the law firm are the diesel versions in the US of:

• Jetta (2009 - 2015)
• Beetle (2009 - 2015)
• Audi A3 (2009 - 2015)
• Golf (2009 - 2015)
• Passat (2014 - 2015)

"While Volkswagen tells consumers that its diesel cars meet California emissions standards, vehicle owners are duped into paying for vehicles that do not meet this standard and unknowingly pay more for quality they never receive," Hagens Berman alleged.

 

[Gavlar]

Not looking good, now Asian markets are investigating. If the EU starts to look (bulk of VW sales really) it'll be squeaky bum time for them

VW emissions probe spreads to Asia
VW emissions probe spreads to Asia - BBC News

 

[56oval]

If they are caught red handed then fair enough, but figures for the fine that could be imposed are as much as 18bn dollars, which is an insane amount of money.
Yes they should be heavily punished ( i doubt they are alone ) but to fine them that much i find it ludicrous, on one hand you have a banking industry that got hand outs to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars for systematic gross misconduct and criminal activity, in the other a car giant that could be buried by the fines imposed for their misconduct. Funny old world/ one way street.

 

[jagged]

Just walked past one of those VW'S when it started up , I wasn't wearing a mask !!! I'm panicking here , is there a helpline.

 

[56oval]

If this case blows up, think of the repercussions for tuners, this case will be the catalyst for legislation that it will become illegal to tamper/alter the manufacturers ecu, diesel or petrol, its the perfect excuse to make it law.

 

[Coog]

Is that not the law in quite a few states in the US anyway?