Speed camera van query

[Boydie]

I was chatting to a friend last weekend and he was telling me he got 3 points for overtaking a car on chevrons when he had an unmarked police car behind him with 3 officers onboard.

He got an offer of 3 points on the spot or going to court but he would have no chance as there would be 3 officers statements verifying what he did. This is the road in question and there was nothing coming the other direction.



View attachment 378486

Can't overtake on chevrons, simple - wouldn't have thought it would be penalty pointable but based on the options given, I am sure it must be. Officer must have been having a bad day, I think a stern talking too would have sufficed

 

[Enda]

Can't overtake on chevrons, simple - wouldn't have thought it would be penalty pointable but based on the options given, I am sure it must be. Officer must have been having a bad day, I think a stern talking too would have sufficed

You can if there is a dashed outer line and it is safe to do so.

 

[Coog]

Can't overtake on chevrons, simple - wouldn't have thought it would be penalty pointable but based on the options given, I am sure it must be. Officer must have been having a bad day, I think a stern talking too would have sufficed

You can overtake if it’s safe to do so. So there’s interpretation built into that rule. If the car was doing 20 and the road was clear then that would be OK. If it was doing 55 then maybe there’d be a case.

Not sure I’d want to argue it in court though.

 

[Enda]

He said the other car was doing 10-15

 

[Boydie]

Learning a lot this week

 

[Coog]

He said the other car was doing 10-15

Madness.

 

[Enda]

Learning a lot this week

When I was doing my bike lessons the instructor asked me if you can overtake on chevrons and he said 9 out of 10 people he asked got it wrong!

 

[stevieturbo]

You can if there is a dashed outer line and it is safe to do so.

Yep, dashed are fine, solid lines are not

I was chatting to a friend last weekend and he was telling me he got 3 points for overtaking a car on chevrons when he had an unmarked police car behind him with 3 officers onboard.

He got an offer of 3 points on the spot or going to court but he would have no chance as there would be 3 officers statements verifying what he did. This is the road in question and there was nothing coming the other direction.



View attachment 378486

Did they try and use the excuse....oh there's a school there ? It isn't safe to overtake ? Like they used to use the excuse for speed campaigns at the same spot.....despite the school having been demolished years ago ?

 

[Snoopcousins]

You can if there is a dashed outer line and it is safe to do so.

Highway code rule 130 about it.

Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.

* if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
* if the area is marked with chevrons and bordered by solid white lines you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency

[Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9, 10 & 16, MT(S)R regs 4, 8, 9 & 14, RTA sect 36 & TSRGD 10(1)]


You have managed to leave out the important line of “unless it is necessary”

 

[Snoopcousins]

When I was doing my bike lessons the instructor asked me if you can overtake on chevrons and he said 9 out of 10 people he asked got it wrong!

Seems you’re one of the 9

 

[stevieturbo]

Highway code rule 130 about it.

Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.

* if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
* if the area is marked with chevrons and bordered by solid white lines you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency

[Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9, 10 & 16, MT(S)R regs 4, 8, 9 & 14, RTA sect 36 & TSRGD 10(1)]


You have managed to leave out the important line of “unless it is necessary”

And passing obstructions can be necessary. And there is nowhere for traffic to turn right ( or left ) at that spot, and totally visible that it would be clear and safe to pass safely.

 

[Snoopcousins]

And passing obstructions can be necessary. And there is nowhere for traffic to turn right ( or left ) at that spot, and totally visible that it would be clear and safe to pass safely.

Nope.
Overtaking a car that is doing 20mph is hardly a necessary manoeuvre!
The chevrons are there for a reason…

From what yous are saying you’re treating them as normal dashed white lines without chevrons lol

 

[big cyril]

I’d say it’s vague, there is no definition of ‘necessary’ and the line is broken rather than solid.

 

[Enda]

Highway code rule 130 about it.

Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.

* if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
* if the area is marked with chevrons and bordered by solid white lines you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency

[Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9, 10 & 16, MT(S)R regs 4, 8, 9 & 14, RTA sect 36 & TSRGD 10(1)]


You have managed to leave out the important line of “unless it is necessary”

The highway code is guidance and not a legal document. There is no definition of necessary within the laws.

 

[Snoopcousins]

The highway code is guidance and not a legal document. There is no definition of necessary within the laws.

I’d bring the popcorn to watch you argue that point in court for a normal overtaking manoeuvre

 

[Enda]

I’d bring the popcorn to watch you argue that point in court for a normal overtaking manoeuvre

Bring salted

Is the Highway Code actually law?​

No, taken alone the Highway Code is not the law. But many of its instructions are backed up by law and so have legal muscle behind them.

Those points supported by the law are clearly identified in the document by wording like ‘MUST’, ‘MUST NOT’, rather than ‘should’ or ‘should not’.

Failure to comply with the other rules of the Code can’t directly cause you to be fined, prosecuted or disqualified – but the advice it offers can be used as evidence in any court, to establish liability.

Often ignored road rules and which ones are law | RAC Drive

Research suggests over 75% of UK drivers never return to the Highway Code after passing their test. These are codes you shouldn't ignore.

www.rac.co.uk

* if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
* if the area is marked with chevrons and bordered by solid white lines you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency

 

[Coog]

Nope.
Overtaking a car that is doing 20mph is hardly a necessary manoeuvre!
The chevrons are there for a reason…

From what yous are saying you’re treating them as normal dashed white lines without chevrons lol

Was doing 10-15. Which is cycling or tractor speed. You wouldn’t overtake a cyclist or a tractor on that stretch?

 

[Snoopcousins]

Bring salted

Is the Highway Code actually law?​

No, taken alone the Highway Code is not the law. But many of its instructions are backed up by law and so have legal muscle behind them.

Those points supported by the law are clearly identified in the document by wording like ‘MUST’, ‘MUST NOT’, rather than ‘should’ or ‘should not’.

Failure to comply with the other rules of the Code can’t directly cause you to be fined, prosecuted or disqualified – but the advice it offers can be used as evidence in any court, to establish liability.

Often ignored road rules and which ones are law | RAC Drive

Research suggests over 75% of UK drivers never return to the Highway Code after passing their test. These are codes you shouldn't ignore.

www.rac.co.uk

* if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
* if the area is marked with chevrons and bordered by solid white lines you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency

Not sure what your point here is,
You’ve just reiterated what I said about it having to be necessary.

Obviously we all know the Highway Code isn’t “law” but it’s clear what’s it setting out and how the road markings and signage should be adhered to.

If the Police done your ‘mate’ for a normal overtaking manoeuvre on the chevrons id say he deserved it…I doubt he was overtaking at 10mph lol…can’t see any police having an issue with that

 

[Enda]

Not sure what your point here is,
You’ve just reiterated what I said about it having to be necessary.

Obviously we all know the Highway Code isn’t “law” but it’s clear what’s it setting out and how the road markings and signage should be adhered to.

If the Police done your ‘mate’ for a normal overtaking manoeuvre on the chevrons id say he deserved it…I doubt he was overtaking at 10mph lol…can’t see any police having an issue with that

Are you missing the bit where should/should not is guidance rather than law? You won’t be prosecuted for breaking guidance as it isn’t supported by law.

 

[Snoopcousins]

Hmmm , as I said I’d this was the case I doubt he would have been done for 3 points with 3 police Officers providing statements to it - seems a bit overkill ..

I smell

Are you missing the bit where should/should not is guidance rather than law? You won’t be prosecuted for breaking guidance as it isn’t supported by law.

He’s breached the chevrons for overtaking when not ‘necessary’ (clearly according to the Police since they’re prosecuting him)
Your point isn’t really valid here

 

[Enda]

Hmmm , as I said I’d this was the case I doubt he would have been done for 3 points with 3 police Officers providing statements to it - seems a bit overkill ..

I smell


He’s breached the chevrons for overtaking when not ‘necessary’ (clearly according to the Police since they’re prosecuting him)
Your point isn’t really valid here

It really is valid. My point is that it appears many people don’t understand the applicable rules of the road as far as chevrons are concerned, some police officers and my mate included.

I haven’t spoke to him this week and I’ve no idea if you can reverse points after you have accepted them but I’d have been going the court option if it happened to me.

 

[cupraricky]

I haven’t spoke to him this week and I’ve no idea if you can reverse points after you have accepted them but I’d have been going the court option if it happened to me.

If the ticket has been accepted and paid and licence surrendered I don't think its reversible.

 

[stevieturbo]

Nope.
Overtaking a car that is doing 20mph is hardly a necessary manoeuvre!
The chevrons are there for a reason…

From what yous are saying you’re treating them as normal dashed white lines without chevrons lol

The chevrons were there from when the school was there and there were side entrances....many many many years ago.

Hmmm , as I said I’d this was the case I doubt he would have been done for 3 points with 3 police Officers providing statements to it - seems a bit overkill ..

I smell

The **** is in your first sentence ? And hence why honest, proper evidence matters. Not the opinion of some jacked up control freaks.

And many would then be scared to take it to court. It costs those same cops zero to accuse and take someone to court....it costs the public a fortune to pay solicitors or barristers to then defend against those allegations.

In such cases where this does happen though, the officers making the allegations should incur penalties and costs against them when they are found in the wrong.

You highlight so well, why so many people have so much contempt.

 

[Snoopcousins]

All based on “my mate told me….”

 

[salster]

whilst driving a taxi heading up the m5 after 11 pm, 60 mph , perfect dry conditions, very quiet road then the passenger decides to change and go up the m2, i checked my mirrors and there was one car behind me but a distance away. i crossed the chevrons and headed up the hill , then blue lights behind me. it was Antrim traffic in an unmarked car heading home. despite them confirming that i didn't cause any problems to any other drivers they still gave me 3 points for being on the chevrons.